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CAOS Forums => Official Business => Topic started by: Brad Nunnally on 2005-02-11T00:17:12-06:00 (Friday)

Title: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Brad Nunnally on 2005-02-11T00:17:12-06:00 (Friday)
It seems that the almighty kimmel as decided to shut down our movie night. They are saying that we would be breaking a few copyright laws by showing these movies. In their great wisdom they decided to inform us of this today, Thurs. 10th, at around 6:30. We are trying to figure this out and save the night.

A general meeting WILL take place regardless of the turn of events. We will discuss kimmels decision and other official business. We will keep everyone informed as news reaches us. I would like to personally apologies for the mix up. Please understand we have no control over kimmel decision.


Brad Ty Nunnally
CAOS Vice-Pres.

(http://img125.exs.cx/img125/2775/huelga3wl.gif)

"Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
Lord Acton
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Ross Mead on 2005-02-11T00:38:37-06:00 (Friday)
Wow, of all the things I would have thought I'd be reading about at midnight, copyright laws was NOT it!  Sorry I couldn't check my mail earlier guys.  Here's the law:

The Federal Copyright Act (Title 17 of the United States Code) governs how copyrighted materials, such as movies, may be used.  Neither the rental nor the purchase of a videocassette carries with it the right to show the tape outside the home.

In some instances no license is required to view a videotape, such as inside the home by family or social acquaintances and in certain narrowly defined face-to-face teaching activities.

Taverns, restaurants, private clubs, prisons, lodges, factories, summer camps, public libraries, day-care facilities, parks and recreation departments, churches and non-classroom use at schools and universities are all examples of situations where a public performance license must be obtained.  This legal requirement applies regardless of whether an admission fee is charged, whether the institution or organization is commercial or non-profit, or whether a federal or state agency is involved.

In other words, according to that, we cannot show the movies tomorrow.  That being said, I'm still going to make an attempt tomorrow to speak to "those whom it concerns" at Kimmel and maybe use the arguments Brad sent out and others I've been looking up as some sort of justification.  It seems like a rather done deal, but there's no harm in trying.

Don't suppose anyone has a big screen and a popcorn machine in their basement do they?  Hope for the best, but plan for the worst guys; if anyone has any other suggestions or arguments, by all means, fill me in.

Thanx, and sorry for all this inconvenience!
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Tyler on 2005-02-11T10:05:46-06:00 (Friday)
This is so stupid.  We just say say we live in the Engineering building.
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Ross Mead on 2005-02-11T10:11:25-06:00 (Friday)
Ha!  I agree, most of us practically do live here!

Does anyone have a copy of the 'Red vs. Blue' movies?  I've never seen them before and I don't know much about them, but I've heard a LOT of people talking about them and assumed that they were free.  Any way we could watch those instead?
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: The_ME on 2005-02-11T10:35:32-06:00 (Friday)
I do have season II at home. I could go snag season I from my buddy, my copy is on loan at the moment.

The shows are free so there should not be a problem with us showing them. There is also a PSA dealing with Rooster Teeth giving their shows away for free.

If campus would like an okay we could email RoosterTeeth and probably get a response by tonight. And then we could print it out and shove it down their throats. Or maybe something not so drastic.

Schedual a copyright protest anyone?

The ME
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Ross Mead on 2005-02-11T10:44:58-06:00 (Friday)
Yeah, 'Red vs. Blue' is sounding like a nice backup plan; there's always Kontraband and AlbinoBlackSheep, right!?! :-P

Unfortunately, as an organization of SIUE, our job is to work WITH Kimmel, even though sometimes they may not seem to be working in our favor.  I, and I'm sure everyone else on here, would agree that the situation sucks, but a copyright protest would probably get us into more trouble than it's worth.  After reading about this last night, I was really hot and ready to go all "Berkley-style" on Kimmel, but after cooling down a bit we have to be rational about things and think about what is best for our organization.

Thanx for all the great ideas guys; it's interesting to see how many of us were actually looking up copyright laws last night! :-P  Hopefully we can still pull off SOME sort of movie night off tonight.  I look forward to seeing everyone there!   :-)
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: R. Andrew Lamonica on 2005-02-11T11:04:08-06:00 (Friday)
I have all of them in "Free lowrez form" on my home computer.  However, I would have to burn them to a DVD to move them because my cable modem is not up to the task of moving GB of information to school in this short of a time.  Additionally, I have to work until five so it would be a close call.  If anyone else has a copy on-campus then you should ask them.  Otherwise, call my extension(x2398) and leave a message.

PS. I downloaded the "uncensored" versions so if anyone objects to profanity, blasphemy, or other verbal debasements then we should find the â€Ã...“Office Cleanâ€Ã, versions and start downloading now because there are 48 of them.
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: The_ME on 2005-02-11T11:11:53-06:00 (Friday)
Are we watching RVB or not? Should I contact Rooster Teeth to satisfy Kimmel?

I was thinking of the copyright protest as a future event, not tonight. More so the length of copyrights as opposed to copyrights in general. Maybe I should stop typing. I will.
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Jerry on 2005-02-11T11:12:28-06:00 (Friday)
I found this on Movie Licensing USA’s faq: http://www.movlic.com/

"Q: I thought schools were exempt from needing a license to legally use copyrighted movies in a school.

A: According to the U.S. Copyright Revision Act, a school can exhibit a copyrighted entertainment movie legally without permission of the copyright owner only if the exhibition takes place in a classroom setting where a teacher is in attendance and the movie is an essential element of the current curriculum."

So my interpretation of this is if we make an educational event like connecting the movie to a topic like (The Ethics of Hacking or Technology Policy & Popular Culture) and I or some other instructor gives a short presentation and leads a discussion, then it is fair use.

The questions was with regard to K-12 Public schools, but it is likely to apply to Higher Ed too.

You might consider approaching Kimmel with this

Jerry
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Chris Swingler on 2005-02-11T11:18:17-06:00 (Friday)
QuotePS. I downloaded the "uncensored" versions so if anyone objects to profanity, blasphemy, or other verbal debasements then we should find the â€Ã...“Office Cleanâ€Ã, versions and start downloading now because there are 48 of them.

Judging that Hackers was rated PG-13, I'd doubt it'll be a problem.
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Ross Mead on 2005-02-11T11:19:23-06:00 (Friday)
Dr. Blythe has been speaking to Cheryl from Kimmel all morning trying to resolve this.  My impression was that we couldn't get around this without a license.  He is proposing the idea of 'Red vs. Blue' now, and preferably will get back to us on the forums as opposed to simply e-mail.

I have class from 12-4, so I'm really wondering how this is gonna' turn out! :-P Good luck all! :-P
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Tyler on 2005-02-11T12:14:55-06:00 (Friday)
I agree with Dr. Weinberg.  I've watched movies in school that relate to the topic at hand.  I watched Dave in my high school civics class and I'm sure we didn't get sued or pay any royalty on it.  I also took a Film as Literature class in high school and all we did was watch movies.

But I guess we shouldn't do it if it will get Kimmel really mad at us.  
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Dr. Stephen Blythe on 2005-02-11T12:35:47-06:00 (Friday)
I am currently waiting to hear back from Cheryl Heard at Kimmel regarding the Red vs. Blue idea. In the mean time, I'd say make plans to go ahead with it - but NOT with DVD's that someone purchased/acquired. If someone has DVD's that they have burned from downloaded versions, we could use that. Otherwise we'll have to have a "virtual projectionist" that downloads and plays movies - of course a good projectionist would multitask and download the "next" one while the current one is playing ...

For those interested, I'm appending the copyright law that was quoted by Kimmel. The letter of the law claims that any copyrighted movie showings MUST be part of a curriculum, and students outside the curriculum cannot watch it (without  permission form the appropriate movie company). This is the part that Kimmel is hung up on (i.e. items 2 and 6 in the guidelines listed below). It's also why there is no problem with watching the movies in classes - they are clearly allowed by these guidelines.

  -Dr. Blythe

==========================================================
Section 110 of the 1984 Copyright Act does provide a specific exemption to the licensing of what is clearly a public performance-"Face-to-face teaching."

To qualify for the exemption, the showing must occur in a face-to-face teaching situation at a non-profit educational institution and meet all of the following six criteria.

1. Performances and displays of audiovisual works must be made from legitimate copies, including pre-recorded videocassettes;

    -not copies from legitimate copies
    -not copies from broadcasts

2. Performances and displays must be part of a systematic course of instruction and not for entertainment, recreation, or cultural value of any part of the audience;

    -Instructor should be able to show how the use of the motion picture contributes to the overall course study and syllabus.
    -Course does not have to be a credit course but must be one recognized by the university and for which people register.

3. Performances and displays must be given by the instructors or pupils;

     -No broadcasting from outside sources.

4. Performances and displays must be given in classrooms and other places devoted to instruction;

    -Library screening rooms, residence hall lounges, rathskellers and cafeterias do not qualify.

5. Performances and displays must be a part of the teaching activities of non- profit educational institutions;

    -Businesses that conduct educational seminars and some technical schools do not qualify.

6. Attendance is limited to the instructors, pupils (i.e., guest lecturers.

    -Only people registered for the class may attend the screening. No fee specific to the showing may be charged.

The videocassette which you are showing must have been lawfully made and required (i.e., you are not pemitted to make copies of a protected work for use in the classroom).

The exemption only applies to "face-to-face teaching activities which requires that the teacher and students be in the vicinity of the video performance. Broadcasting and other transmission from an outside location into classrooms whether by radio or television and whether open
or closed circuited is not permitted.

The exemption is available only to non-profit educational institutions.

The exemption applies only to performances rendered "in the course of teaching activities" involving systematic instruction. The exemption does not apply to performances given for recreation or entertainment purposes.

The performance must take place in a classroom or similar place devoted to instruction, which may include a gymnasium, training field. library or auditorium if it is actually used as a classroom for systematic instructional activities. However, the exemption is not applicable to performances in an auditorium or stadium during a school assembly, graduation ceremony, class play or sporting event where the audience is not confined to the members of a particular class. The exemption is for classroom, not school,
performances.
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Tyler on 2005-02-11T12:48:09-06:00 (Friday)
Are you encouraging illegal downloading off those rougue pirate networks?  Somebody with some actual bandwidth should download them for tonight.  We all know how reliable and quick the CV internet is so that counts me out.
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: R. Andrew Lamonica on 2005-02-11T13:03:06-06:00 (Friday)
I did not know that Red Vs. Blue was illegal to copy.  If it is then http://archive.org is violating the law and I am not encouraging that behavior.
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Dr. Stephen Blythe on 2005-02-11T13:20:43-06:00 (Friday)
If it's illegal for red vs. blue to be downloaded, then

      www.redvsblue.com

is in trouble too. So I think we're probably OK.

  -Dr. Blythe

Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: The_ME on 2005-02-11T13:25:07-06:00 (Friday)
Red vs. Blue is given away for free. It is not illegal to copy Red vs. Blue. Rooster Teeth offers all of the current  seacon. They have a rolling archive to download previous episodes. Here is the link for that:

http://www.redvsblue.com/archive/archive.php

current season:
http://www.redvsblue.com/archive/

Dr. Blythe,
      Since we are not dealing with a movie company, would it be acceptable to contact the folks at Rooster Teeth and ask for permission to show the DVDs? An email of permission should please Kimmel.

The ME
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Jonathan Birch on 2005-02-11T13:54:50-06:00 (Friday)
This isn't related to the copyright/what will we show issue at all, but is there going to be food, or do we need to bring our own?
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Tyler on 2005-02-11T14:02:53-06:00 (Friday)
Bring your own.

Some of us were probably going to go together on some pizza once we all get there, so if you want pizza bring some money and we'll organize it tonight once we all get there.
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Bryan on 2005-02-11T14:05:30-06:00 (Friday)
we will be doing stuff for food, but individually. a.k.a. CAOS aint payin for it ;)
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: The_ME on 2005-02-11T14:33:22-06:00 (Friday)
Well, I emailed Rooster Teeth Productions this email:

From: Josef Gabriel
Reply-To: Josef Gabriel
To: business@roosterteeth.com
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 14:02:24 -0600
Subject: Permission to show Red vs Blue

Dear Rooster Teeth Productions,

    The Computer Association of Southern Illinois University
(C.A.O.S.) is asking for permission to show the Red vs Blue DVDs for
our movie night. The event is free of charge. The movie night would be
happening on February 11, 2005 at 7:00pm.

Respectfully,

Josef Gabriel
C.A.O.S. Memeber

And this is the email I recieved back:

From: Burnie Burns
To: Josef Gabriel , business@roosterteeth.com
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 14:23:14 -0600
Subject: Re: Permission to show Red vs Blue

Go for it.
- Hide quoted text -

At 02:02 PM 2/11/2005, Josef Gabriel wrote:
>Dear Rooster Teeth Productions,
>
>      The Computer Association of Southern Illinois University
>(C.A.O.S.) is asking for permission to show the Red vs Blue DVDs for
>our movie night. The event is free of charge. The movie night would be
>happening on February 11, 2005 at 7:00pm.
>
>Respectfully,
>
>Josef Gabriel
>C.A.O.S. Memeber

Burnie Burns
------------
RedVsBlue.com
http://www.redvsblue.com
buzby@redvsblue.com

*******************************************
Due to the high volume of e-mail coming to
RedvsBlue, I ask that you please include
this message if you reply to it.

Thanks.
*******************************************

I hope this helps. Does anyone need this email forwarded to them?
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Tyler on 2005-02-11T14:49:08-06:00 (Friday)
I would think if we have the permission of Red vs. Blue, then we should have no problem.  

I say we do it.

p.s. 200th post!!!
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Bryan on 2005-02-11T14:56:28-06:00 (Friday)
If someone could go ahead and make plans to bring in the DVD's, it is easier than getting the downloads.

edit: this was 1 away form being my 100th, Tyler you need a life! :-P
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: The_ME on 2005-02-11T15:18:31-06:00 (Friday)
I will bring Season I and II. Dr. Blythe still has to give his okay. It is at 7 right?
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Bryan on 2005-02-11T15:48:29-06:00 (Friday)
Go ahead and bring it to be on the safe side, we'll take accotions accordingly but better to have it than to not.

Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Dr. Stephen Blythe on 2005-02-11T16:02:32-06:00 (Friday)
Finally got a response from Cheryl Heard at Kimmel Center. Unfortunately, she pretty much waffled saying that she was having legal counsel look into whether or not we could show items downloaded from the net, but that she thought it would be OK.

In other words, she didn't say "no".

So, I would say, go ahead with the Red vs. Blue plans, but, ****NOT FROM A BOUGHT/ACQUIRED DVD**** !!!!!, which could be construed as subjected to the copyright law.

We'll have to download them and work that way. I'll start grabbing a few now, starting with episode 0  If someone else wants to start with episode 10, another person with 20, ... we should (almost) be ready by 7 PM. Almost.

I know it sounds silly, but there's not much other "safe" choice right now.

  -Dr. Blythe
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Ross Mead on 2005-02-11T16:19:53-06:00 (Friday)
Finally outta' class!  Woohoo!

So, in my eternal boredom and doodling in my Sociology class, I came up with a computer related ethical question (like Brad's new thread) that relates to our topic:

Should ROBOTS be allowed to watch copyrighted material on school grounds (or broadcast it for that matter)?  I mean, the law didn't state anything about that did it?  What would they pull next?  "The counsel is looking into it."  BAH on that I say!  Stick it to the man!  Yeah!

Sorry for all that; just got done listening to the most hardcore SOCIALIST on the planet and am in a protesting mood! :-P

What we could do is go ahead and watch the movies... but put Taz, Elmer, and Marvin outside the doors watching for anyone attempting to enter.  This, again, goes back to Brad's original question: "Should robots be allowed to kill!?!" :-P

And I leave you all with that!  See-ya' tonight! :-D
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Bryan on 2005-02-11T16:45:39-06:00 (Friday)
Ross, you're insane.  Welcome to the club!  

I'm starting the downloads at episode 10, hopefully I'll be able to get them



edit: nevermind I just realized I'm on a computer I can't download to and won't be home until AFTER the movie night...bahahadf09213u0jalsdfjalkdjf1jh9038h
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Tyler on 2005-02-11T17:19:38-06:00 (Friday)
You wouldn't think they'd push us to play it from a medium we get for free instead of a medium we would pay for.
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Ross Mead on 2005-02-12T00:58:01-06:00 (Saturday)
Heya' guys, I just wanted to thank everyone that came to the movie night for a great time.  For those of you that couldn't join us, we enjoyed a lecture from Dr. Weinberg regarding some cultural and ethical issues in technology today, and later watched Season I of 'Red vs. Blue' while dining on some "fine chinese cuisine" (okay, so I didn't actually RECEIVE MY order... bastards... ).

I have to say that, even without Hackers and "Hackers 2", we had a blast!  We decided to save Seasons II and III to be viewed at a later date, so I encourage anyone who missed it this time to join us next time! :-)
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Tyler on 2005-02-12T03:01:58-06:00 (Saturday)
Yeah it was a good time.  I've never seen Red vs. Blue before, and it's really good.  Thanks all for showing up.

Look for a poll on tshirts the beginning of next week.
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: William Grim on 2005-02-12T03:47:22-06:00 (Saturday)
It's all about the Amber Bock!
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Bryan on 2005-02-12T08:51:21-06:00 (Saturday)
Tyler I'm glad one of us went out and get drunk last night.  Anyway thanks for everyone that showed up.  Hope ya had fun (I know I did) adn keep an eye/ear out for our next event.

p.s. Ross we need to talk about your girlfriends older sister ;-)
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Jerry on 2005-02-12T13:10:12-06:00 (Saturday)
I had a great time too!

What about a strange movies off the Web night, where we download a bunch of strange stuff like at www.rathergood.com ?

Though some of it may need to carry a warning lable.
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Ross Mead on 2005-02-13T01:08:52-06:00 (Sunday)
QuoteModernDayDarwin wrote:

p.s. Ross we need to talk about your girlfriends older sister

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Bryan on 2005-02-13T09:00:59-06:00 (Sunday)
the funny thing is, you think I'm kidding.
QuoteQ-Bit wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: William Grim on 2005-02-13T09:49:08-06:00 (Sunday)
I knew you weren't joking.
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Tyler on 2005-02-13T17:06:53-06:00 (Sunday)
From now on, Ross, your girlfriend is required to attend all CAOS functions.
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Bryan on 2005-02-13T18:37:25-06:00 (Sunday)


My point was that Ross thought I was joking.
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Ross Mead on 2005-02-14T00:48:09-06:00 (Monday)
LOL!!!  Yeah, she's definitely gettin' a kick outta' this! :-P

I'm almost wondering if this deserves it's own thread!  J/K!!!
Title: Re: Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!
Post by: Bryan on 2005-02-14T08:02:55-06:00 (Monday)
tell her that she aint seen nothing yet.