Hi everyone,
I'm new in this forum. I have recently found this forum and really like it. Forums like this one allow individuals to express themselves freely.
This summer, before I found this forum, I had a similar idea that SIUE students should have a forum like this. I had a little project that was trying to rally support from SIUE students for such forum. I wrote a draft of the proposal for the project and talked to the Kimmel Leadership Center, the Student Government. I also planned to write to the Alestle and people in charge of the university website.
I will post the draft of the proposal soon here in this forum so you could read and comment on it. If you like the idea, you could join me to get the word out to gather more support of SIUE students. I think if we are successfull in asking university to install such web forum for everyone to use, it would provide many great benefits for everyone here at SIUE.
I feel lucky to have found your forum. As you can see, I take this opportunity to write about SIUE parking policy. Thank you.
SIUE PArking Policy
I really have a problem with SIUE parking policy. I’ve heard many students’ complaints about how SIUE ticketed students for this and that. I did not seem to care much until now when I received a parking ticket today, on the first day of classes.
Many students before me have already suspected that the way SIUE ticketing parking violations had to do more with collecting extra money from students’ pockets than helping students parking their cars in appropriate lots. In my opinion, that seems true.
I heard from a student’s presentation in a class this summer that it was estimated that SIUE collected approximately 10 million dollars a year in parking tickets alone. This figure might be needed to be checked for accuracy but many students, including me, feel that the money generated from parking fines is not a small sum.
In my case, it is obvious that SIUE wants to increase their revenue from parking violation by deliberately and abruptly changed the red color parking lot to brown one. The parking in front of the Valadabene Fitness Center used to be the Red lot up until this summer. This morning I happened to park there as usual very early in the morning for my 8 o’clock class. When I came out to the car later in the evening and found out that a ticket was stuck under the windshield wiper of my car for parking in the wrong lot, I thought it was a mistake. I immediately took the ticket and my parking permit to the parking office and was told that the lot was now changed from red to brown and that I should have received the information about the change in the mail and on SIUE website. I have been here at SIUE for a year and also taking summer classes. Yet nobody mentioned a thing about the change when I came to the office to buy the permit at the end of the summer. I also did not receive any piece of mail from SIUE informing me about the change like they claimed. More, where is the information on the SIUE website? Should I go to dig in the school website for any update in parking policy every day so that I could avoid being fined? I noticed there were signs at the entrance of the parking lot that said the lot was now a brown lot after I got the ticket but I did not see a thing in the early morning when I parked.
I could not find a single legitimate reason for that parking lot to be changed from red to brown except that SIUE might want to make more money in selling brown parking permits, which are probably a lot more expensive, and ticketing innocent students like me. The parking there in front of the gym was used by many students to have a shorter walk to the gym, science building, etc. I could not use the parking lot to walk to classes in science building anymore but now have to spend double the time or more to walk all the way from the other side of the school. I am also a gym regular in the morning but if I want to use that parking lot, I have to wait after 3 pm to park unless I'm willing to put some money in the parking meter. So I guess that it may be a good idea if SIUE shut down the gym, spare all its expenses, and make more money that way. Should I have to walk all the way from the other side of the school to go to the gym, I already had enough work-out when I got there.
I used to live on the East Coast and the school I went to there before transferring here always allowed the first week of classes for the students to park free so that the students has enough time to go to register for classes, buy parking permits and comply with the rules, and do other things. Besides putting noticeable signs informing students about parking policy, they would issue a warning to be placed on my car’s windshield to inform me about any change in parking that would take effect a week later instead of giving the ticket if I was in the wrong parking lot. SIUE parking service could do the same! If the genuine intention is to reinforce the parking policy with the purpose of helping students to make life and work at the university easier, they could do something like that. Yet they did not.
I predict that if this trend of SIUE parking policy continues, we will soon exhaust all the colors of the rainbow. Before long, we will see mixed-color codes for parking lots like red and white parking, blue and green, black and yellow, and so on. That might even run out quickly if the university is feeling the need to collect more money. Looking on the bright side, that might also help keep many students, who certainly could not keep up with the ever increase in parking fees, in shape and stay healthy since mile-long walk is now a regular part of the university student life.
I’m not an oh-so-bright student and struggling in school desperately yet I could come up with some other â€Ã...“innovativeâ€Ã, ways to help SIUE to collect even more money. How about installing a toll booth at both ends of walkways strategically placed where the students use them the most to collect fees? How about wiping the student Cougar card every time when a student likes to use a computer in the computer labs or library to charge a fee for the usage? I could go on and onâ€Ã,¦
SIUE is a public university, which is supported by Illinois tax payers and federal funding. Thus its ultimate goal should be to deliver an affordable education for the public and provide the means for them to achieve it. Understandably, the university may need some extra funds sometimes to operate smoothly and to expand and develop as a true premier metropolitan university. Yet it could raise money by some different and noble ways. If this situation continues, the name of the university could be spelled as $IUE instead of SIUE in a very near future. It costs money in the city, eh?
Bummer dude. Well, they changed the sign, and they mailed you. (
I certainly knew about it...) Since you obviously did not read said mailing, you can download a copy of it here:
MEMO TO: Undergraduate and Graduate Students (http://admin.siue.edu/parking/05-06%20Student%20Memo.pdf)
They have an entire paragraph about the new brown lot. It's even in bold print.
QuoteDuring the past year, we have received numerous complaints about the crowded condition of Lot F.
To increase students’ chances of finding available spaces, the lot will be designated as a brown
permit lot, with the permit price increasing to $100, the cost equivalent of a green permit. The
brown permit will also be honored in all red permit lots and may be modified by Parking Services so
that it may be used in the residential areas.
It sure makes sense to me. I always used to have trouble parking in that lot before I got a green tag. I often ended up wasting more time looking for a spot or parking in the ECC lot than if I had just parked out in the fan lots.
Sure, it seems parking services is pretty unforgiving, but they've got a job to do. People just get cranky for having to pay up for their mistakes.
SIUE's Parking Web Site (http://admin.siue.edu/parking/)
If it is of any consolation, faculty are treated the same as students.
When I first arrived at sIUE it was the week before classes were to start, I figured there would be a "free parking" period to give everyone a chance to get parking permits. At least that is how it was at the last 4 universities I attended. Anyway, I got a ticket, and it was not forgiven.
I have other frustrating parking stories too.
I am certainly sympathetic, anguyen.
QuoteAnguyen wrote:
...the way SIUE ticketing parking violations had to do more with collecting extra money from students’ pockets than helping students parking their cars in appropriate lots.
You're a quick learner. I firmly believe that such agencies involved in enforcement of rules SHOULD be focused on deterring the infraction of said rules, rather than revenue generation. I suspect that in your case, a warning would have had the same deterrent effect as a ticket (they don't give warnings, though).
They do allow a week's grace period for you to buy your parking pass--but that is only for RED lots--and of course is not posted, though it is buried somewhere in their regulations.
I've had a couple of parking tickets that I believe were at least as bogus: Once I was issued a ticket when a sun-visor PARTIALLY obscured the view of my parking pass. Later I was ticketed when someone stole my pass and parked illegally. They had the guy's license plate number, but they wouldn't do :censored: about it!!! I reported it to the police and appealed the ticket all the way to whatever board Parking Services has, but to no avail. I apologize for ranting :realmad:, but I do not believe I should be held responsible for something after it has been STOLEN FROM ME! :ranting:
$IUE. I like that one. :-D Anyone else remember in 2003 (I think) when SIUE was begging to increase tuition because they were broke (they raised it about 10%). At the same time the Dean's office was being renovated for around $150,000 (I forget exactly)? It was on Contact 2.
By no means I am a sympathizer with the parking people, but I have had good experiences with them during my time at SIUE.
Whenever I did get tickets, it was for parking in the wrong lots. They are cleary marked which ones you can park in, and if you park in one you're not supposed to, they give you a ticket. I guess you could say I deserved them.
I had a misunderstanding once about being able to park in the dunham lot once because of a school event. It was a band concert, and I had parked in that lot for the concerts for all 4 years. I had never gotten a ticket for it. I got a ticket on the last concert (middle April of this year). I went in, complained about it, they said no one told them, so they ticketed people. I had to pay it, and do an appeal. I said screw it, I'm graduating, and went on my way.
I had a change of heart a few weeks later, and didn't think I should have to pay for it, I called spoke with some "manager", and a few weeks later I got a refund for MORE than the amount I paid for my ticket.
Now, in the first place, I don't think it's right how you are guilty until proven innocent with them (you have to pay your ticket to appeal it). But, all in all, I have had good experiences with them. Not to mention, from what I hear from friends at other schools, parking passes here are MUCH less than other schools.
~tfizzle
I was made aware of this change over the summer. Apparently the brown lot is VC only and costs $100, it also gets you onto the red lots. SO, I called Parking Retards *cough* I mean Services. They told me they had complaints from students not being able to use the VC lot when they wanted to work out etc. And Parking Services said that they wanted to make the VC lot more restricted. Now, I work at OIT and have a little more reason than some others to need the lot as do Engineering students, VC users, and all other buildings in the area. So, yes I MIGHT be able to see the need for more restriction, even though if we all pay the same we should all park the same its first come first serve right? Anyway back to being restricted. If Parking Services MUST restrict this lot, restrict it by who has classes or works in these buildings, don't restrict it by who can shuck out an extra $30.
And about $IUE. well, i've said for a long time its and institution of higher education, its a money making institution
well said, Raptor... I'm just wondering how much money they planned to get by performing this move?
Quotetfizzle wrote:
from what I hear from friends at other schools, parking passes here are MUCH less than other schools.
Really? $60-100 is MUCH less than other schools? Geez! For the purpose of argument I'll pretend to be naive: Isn't the charge for parking tags intended to cover the cost of SIUE providing parking for the students? I can't believe it would cost $60-100 per space per semester (not to mention that they can sell more tags than there are spaces).
The only other college I went to was LCCC and their parking passes were FREE (as in beer). There was only one type of permit and they only enforced one traffic rule: park only in the lots, in non-handicapped spaces. 8-)
My parents work at ISU and I went to High School there. At ISU the parking is much worse than here. My parent's house is about a mile from the campus quad and many students without passes or with cheap passes park further than our house. My Mom pays about $250 a year for an unreserved spaces in a garage a block from her office. I think that the $100 I have to pay here to avoid walking in the winter is cheap.
ISU's Parking Prices (http://www.parking.ilstu.edu/permits/prices.shtml)
P.S. My dad was paying for an ISU surface permit (about $75) because there are usually places for him to park near his office, however, he just reached 25 years of service and now he gets a free one. :-)
QuoteSIUE is a public university, which is supported by Illinois tax payers and federal funding. Thus its ultimate goal should be to deliver an affordable education for the public and provide the means for them to achieve it. Understandably, the university may need some extra funds sometimes to operate smoothly and to expand and develop as a true premier metropolitan university. Yet it could raise money by some different and noble ways. If this situation continues, the name of the university could be spelled as $IUE instead of SIUE in a very near future. It costs money in the city, eh?
It is obvious to me here that the intention of SIUE parking service is simply making money and making students' lives more difficult. Maybe SIUE parking service could claimed that many student complained that they could not find the parking space in that lot. But how many actually did that? and of what percentage of the whole student body here? Maybe those students should remember the basic rule of first come first serve so that they might have to wake up and go to school a little bit early rather to run there in a rush not finding a close parking and then complain miserably? I drive by the VC lot every morning now and find the lot half empty. Is it efficient in untilizing the lot the way it is now to serve the majority of students or just that the lot is restricted so that SIUE parking service could make more money? I think the answer is so so crystal.
I quote myself because I'd like to emphasize that the university, especially as a public university, has the responsibility to serve the public rather than to be money-making driven.
I believe there are many "noble" ways to raise fund for the university than making money by the current parking policy and it is the job of the university administration to find those. We could go the higher road by comparing, improving ourselves, and acting according to the many universities that are putting first the students' interests and benefits. Should we follow the examples of other schools like ISU, whose parking services and fees are worse than ours? Do we really want to pay $2-300 dollars for a close parking lot or wait until decades later to get a free one? And it seems that there is no equal opportunities for the students when one could shell out a $100 to buy himself or herself a good parking space, which many others simply could not afford? We should not compare ourselves to the other universities, which are busy finding petty ways to make money here and there and forget the ultimate purpose of an higher education institution in the first place. Unless its hidden agenda is really making money.
I believe the hidden agenda is blatent and clear in this case.
$$$$$. Lets all not forget one more thing. If SIUE is so dead set on making money out of Parking Services maybe they could quit driving 4-wheel drive extended cab v6 pickup trucks. Just think of the insurance and fuel costs bicycles or golf carts would save. I think the best I've seen is when they stop for lunch sitting in a running truck, just sitting there. You know,running the truck isn't the only way to get AC or Heat.
Scott
Some university parking costs.
SLU (http://www.slu.edu/services/parking/rates2006/)
Wash U (http://parking.wustl.edu/prices05-06.html)
Duke (http://aux03.auxserv.duke.edu/parking/permits/0506Permit_rates_with%20_links.htm)
Purdue (http://www.purdue.edu/parking/fees.htm)
Notre Dame (http://graduateschool.nd.edu/html/admissions/tuition.html)
Just some examples.
Yes, I know that many school pay more than we do. But you also have to consider the services recieved from these Universities. I know that last year Red lots did not get plowed when it snowed. Several years ago they did get plowed but they blocked the parking meters and gave out tickets to people who couldn'at get to the meters to put money in. And some of these high price Universities are in downtown, high cost real estate areas where the pure price of property is what drives the cost of parking up. Here at SIUE Parking Services has no legitimate reason for the prices they charge given the service we recieve, the cost of real estate, and the un-economical resources they emplore (i.e. extremely costy trucks).
Scott
I will admit the trucks they drive are a waste of money.
Maybe it's unfounded, but all-in-all I think Parking Services does a pretty good and fair job. Or maybe I'm the lucky one who has had only good experiences with them. Who knows?
making it a brown lot makes sense in that people with red tags would typically drive around the loop to see if parking was available in the VC lot, then either lurk in the lot waiting for spots to open up or drive around to the red lots. in both cases a long drive/wait.
or at least i'm told. my green tag lets me park almost inside the building i'm going to.
I have only ever had one problem with these guys. Last semester I walked up to my car at around 2 in the afternoon and some guy was writing me a ticket getting ready to put it on my car. At the time I had a night time pass and was parked in one of the red lots since it was before 3. I told him that he shouldn't give me a ticket since I am allowed to park in the red lots. He said that with a grey pass I can only park in the lots after 3 p.m. When I told him he was wrong he wouldn't believe me. In the end I had him get his supervisor to drive over and together we told him that grey passes are ok in the red lots and my ticket disappered. My only wonder over the whole situation was how many other grey pass people got a ticket before I was able to correct the guy. :-?
Hmm....
Yeah, I would say that green tags should offer valet service. I mean, for $100, why can't this be done?!? I feel cheated with the extra long walk from the green lots to the building 100 meters away!!!
All I can say is, it's about g-d time $IUE did something like this.
Last October, I broke my ankle in two places. But because I was struggling in class, I made the (in hindsight) stupid decision to go to school instead of a doctor.
Every single day I had class the VC lot was full not only of people who had red stickers, but there were yellow and green. This pissed me off to no end because that meant:
1. People who lived ON CAMPUS were hogging up valuable parking spots for commuter students
2. People who had permission to get way better spots to the rest of campus were hogging up valuable parking spots for commuter students.
Anyway, after circling the over-sold VC lot, I had no choice but to park in the day-care lot, and walk to the EB.
Normally, this would not have been a big deal, but because I trekked as far as I did (before I got crutches), I damaged my ankle even more. I'm lucky it healed like it did.
If you take a look now, there is more than ample parking space in the VC lot. This is because only those who actually have a need to be in the lot are there.
Not those who are just conveniently "popping in" for their morning workout, and then oops, time for class, and after that, let's have lunch in the muc; Oh look, they have bowling! lets bowl a few games, oh ***! Another class... you get the idea.
This new parking scheme clears this kind of crap up.
Like I said, about g-d time.
i think the daycare lot is actually an orange lot... That is kinda stupid because its hard to know if the lot is a red lot with a faded sign, or if it is actaully an orange lot.
as for green people in the VC, i don't see the issue. could be staff parking to actually go into the VC. not that the EB lots are a long walk though.
Thank you all for your response to my post. I never thought that we love talking about SIUE Parking Services so much :lol:. I think that althought we all have different opinions, we all have the right to say whatever on our minds freely with the respect to other's.
As I said in this post before, I think we should have a web forum like this one for the whole university and I am trying to rally student support to ask the university to install one. I'm still working on ideas and the draft of the proposal. I'm posting the draft under a new post titled "A Forum like this...SIUE Web Forum".
Please read and make your comments. Thank you.
The following email was sent to the faculty/staff email list after a similar discussion on these lists. It's interesting if you follow the link and read about why the new brown pass was insituted, it turns out this was a suggestion by the Student Senate - your elected representatives!
-----------------------------------------------------------
The link below provides the rationale for the recent change of Lot F to a brown lot.
If you have further questions, please contact the Parking Services office, 650-3680.
Thank you.
http://admin.siue.edu/parking/aboutus.htm
look under "Parking & Traffic Committee" and choose Lot F issue
Re: A Forum like this...SIUE Web Forum
I want to update this post by an email that I sent to Ms. Rakers, the editor of the Alestle, the student newspaper.
-------------------
Dear Ms. Rakers,
Thank you for printing my letter to the editor "SIUE PArking Policy" in today issue of the Alestle. I found that it is interesting that the change in VC lot from red to brown was actually suggested by the Student Senate, yet we, students, did not have a clue where it came from. Should we have an instant communcation channel, e.g. an SIUE web forum, there would input from the general SIUE students to the Student Government and SIUE Parking Service, therefore, there would be no surprise when the parking policy is in place and working. This could be generalized for many situations and issues. Thus there are more compelling reasons for an SIUE web forum that I have proposed.
Please read more in CAOS forum regarding the update information Dr. Weinberg of the Computer Department, School of Engineering, SIUE found on recent change in SIUE parking.
http://caos.siue.edu/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?
viewmode=flat&order=DESC&topic_id=998&forum=15
Sincerely,
Anh Nguyen
http://admin.siue.edu/parking/aboutus.htm
QuoteFor several years, students have expressed concern about the crowded parking conditions in Lot F.
Maybe SIUE parking service could claimed that many student complained that they could not find the parking space in that lot. But how many actually did that? and of what percentage of the whole student body here? QuoteMany of the complaints involved students darting recklessly through the lot in search of open spaces, ultimately having to park in the fan parking area and making themselves late for class.
Maybe those students should remember the basic rule of first come first serve so that they might have to wake up and go to school a little bit early rather to run there in a rush not finding a close parking and then complain miserably? QuoteAccordingly, Student Government brought the problem to the Parking and Traffic Committee. Representatives told Committee members that students would not mind paying more for a permit for that lot, if there were a better chance for them to find a parking space there.
:-? :-? :-?
Update
http://admin.siue.edu/parking/aboutus.htm
Note: The below email is also CC'ed to the Alestle, the student newspaper.
----- Forwarded message from anguyen@siue.edu -----
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 04:27:09 -0500
From: anguyen@siue.edu
Reply-To: anguyen@siue.edu
Subject: SIUE Parking Policy/Lot F Issue/
To: clin@siue.edu, mparis@siue.edu, icooper@siue.edu, gpeleka@siue.edu,
wdusenb@siue.edu, jmcderm@siue.edu, lscatur@siue.edu, cykorte@siue.edu,
cholesk@siue.edu, wcopper@siue.edu, cacobb@siue.edu, t_pruett@hotmail.com,
kmagee@siue.edu, jgosch@siue.edu, dkeeton@siue.edu, alangen@siue.edu,
ltaylor@eslccc.com, rlegate@siue.edu, cturner@siue.edu, rvanzo@siue.edu,
rwashbu@siue.edu, pwerner@siue.edu
Dear Parking and Traffic Committee Representatives,
My name is Anh Nguyen, a senior student here at SIUE. I have recently written
a letter to the editor about the lot F isssue, which was printed in the
Tuesday 8/30 issue of the Alestle. I also posted that letter in the CAOS web
forum so that students or anyone having interest in this issue could comment
and voice their opinions. From the response from the people who read it, it
seems that many are interested, making arguments and wanting to contribute
their opinions on the issue. I think that it is a good idea that the
representatives of the Parking and Traffic Committee take a look at those
opinions and arguments and may clarify anything that is unclear. It would be
good for an open and constructive dialogue on the issue.
Here is the link to the discussion on the CAOS web forum.
http://caos.siue.edu/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?
topic_id=998&forum=15&post_id=5372#forumpost5372
Sincerely,
Anh Nguyen
I think the debate over the VC parking being red or brown and complaining about Parking $ervices's money-making tactics is missing the root problem here: lack of red lot parking anywhere near the Engineering building.
The complaint that changed the VC lot to brown was that not enough students were able to park there. The reason it was changed to red a few years ago is that nobody except the few with green tags could park near the Engineering and Science buildings. Even as a red lot, there was not enough room; it always filled up early. It is ridiculous to have to walk all the way from the fan lots to the Engineering Building just because your first class starts at 11 AM.
SIUE needs more parking near the EB.:yes:
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:32:53 -0500
From: anguyen@siue.edu
To: alestleeditor@gmail.com
Subject: Reply to Letter to the Editor/Web link to CAOS web forum
I forgot to include a web link to the CAOS web forum. So here it is,
http://caos.siue.edu/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?
viewmode=flat&topic_id=998&forum=15
http://caos.siue.edu/modules/newbb/viewforum.php?forum=15
http://caos.siue.edu/modules/news/
Thank you for your help.
Anh Nguyen
----- Forwarded message from anguyen@siue.edu -----
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:22:13 -0500
From: anguyen@siue.edu
Reply-To: anguyen@siue.edu
Subject: Reply to Letter to the Editor,
To: alestleeditor@gmail.com
Dear Editor,
Thank you for printing my letter to the editor "Hurricane Katrina raises issues
beyond destruction" in today issue of the Alestle. I've just read the other
letter to the editor "Parking service teaches students a valuable lesson" and
found many interesting ideas there.
I would like to ask you to forward my below email to the author of that letter
to the editor, Ms. Hayes, if possible.
Thank you very much for your help.
Sincerely,
Anh Nguyen
------------
Dear Ms. Hayes,
I've just read your letter to the editor on today issue of the Alestle and
found many of your ideas interesting. The Computer Association of SIUE (CAOS)
has its own web news forum. Everytime I write a letter to the editor, I also
post a copy of my letter in the Lounge forum section of the CAOS web forum for
everyone there to read and make their comments. I've found this is a very good
way to exchange and share our knowledge and information in an almost instant
and interactive way. I have learned a lot from people by just reading their
posts and comments there.
I would like to invite you to go there, join the forum, and maybe post anything
you have to say there, including the letter to editor "Parking service teaches
students a valuable person". It is very easy to register to join the forum.
The CAOS web forum is very generous and open to everyone. (I am not even a
member of the School of Engineering or Department of Computer). All you need
to join there is your email address to register for a user name of your wish.
Please visit the CAOS web forum and see what is going on there. I think you'll
like it.
Thank you very much for your letter to the editor that I have read in the
Alestle today. I have learned many interesting things from it.
Sincerely,
Anh Nguyen
-------------------------------------------------
SIUE Web Mail
----- End forwarded message -----
-------------------------------------------------
SIUE Web Mail
My only minor complaint is that the universal permit isn't accepted there. I have a green tag...I'd like to workout before work/class sometimes.
no can do. I wonder what the thought process for this was.
edit: not to play devil's advocate or anything, but does anyone actually know the profit margin (if there is one) for the parking services money. Everyone always seems to neglect the fact that running things cost money. I keep hearing "SIUE is out to make money" well, SIUE is a state institution. It's not like anyone's directly pocketing this money. Sure the people that work there get their salaries..and anyone that's had a real job knows the better you do your job, the more your raise is. So those that are just doing their jobs can't be blamed. Now maybe SIUE is making money from parking services. After all it seems college students have problems keeping track of when their meter runs out, or comprehending parking rules, or...sometimes the stupidity of people amazes me, but I digress. Ever think that maybe this money goes to other things that students take for granted? Like that nice new blacktop path next to Dunham Hall..or..hell I can't think of any examples right now, but you get the idea.
It's in everyone's human nature to bitch, but on this one I say they did a good thing. After all it wasn't so long ago that the VC was a green lot.