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Wi-Fi dilemma

Started by Matthew Thomas, 2005-03-15T01:15:33-06:00 (Tuesday)

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Guest

I think that analogy is slightly flawed.  Since I doubt the owner of that network could prove you were in it, I'd assume it's an "innocent until proven guilty" thing.  I can prove you were in my house if I see you there.  (Well, as much as an eye-witness account can really prove anything.)  I'd say it's more like you catch someone looking at your house and observing an open door- something that isn't a crime.  I can see open networks without logging on and accessing any data.

raptor

Well,

Stopped by to check on that network today.  Not only is it now secured with a 128 bit key, but they also lowered their signal strenght significantly ( i barely picked it up about 50 feet from the office).  

So...

Mark one up for the good guys.


Scott
President of CAOS
Software Engineer NASA Nspires/Roses Grant

Michael Kennedy

Good deal.  I recently had a success story like that, too.  I accidentally logged into an unsecured network in a neighborhood of nice homes when I was working on a client's home machine.  I did a quick scan to see what they had and if anything had port 80 open.  One thing did- some sort of DLink wireless card for an XBox.  I changed some settings on there to make sure it wouldnt work anymore and the next day the whole network was secured with 128bit WEP.

The lesson: don't convince people they need security- just piss off their kids (thus, starting the chain reaction).  I bet that was all it would take ot get more parents to set things up properly the first time.  :)
"If it ain't busted, don't fix it" is a very sound principal and remains so despite the fact that I have slavishly ignored it all my life. --Douglas Adams, "Salmon of Doubt"

Geoff Schreiber

And if they didn't know what you changed or how to secure it? You just cost them a service bill for some tech support company to send a guy out and "fix" their network you just busted...

I'm with Peter - even if the door is unlocked and open, it's still breaking and entering in the terms of the law.  And as far as not proving who was in their network, that's a joke...  While it is unsecured, so they most likely aren't as knowledgeable as one would hope to start with, some wireless routers track quite a bit of information that is transmitted over their networks.  Do you want to guess that the feds have access to information on computers that are sold as assembled units if they need it? And that each laptop/tower sold has a serial number matched to a build sheet that lists the wireless device's MAC address?  It doesn't take much to track computer users these days...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Geoff Schreiber
Project Engineer
FASTechnology Group

William Grim

I'm also in accordance with leaving networks alone.  I think Geoff makes a good point about possibly causing them financial loss, which is also a separate criminal offense.  If you find yourself on an unsecured network by accident (ie your NIC has no essid set and chooses the first one it hits), then just logout and possibly leave an anonymous letter; however, don't go back once you know about the problem.
William Grim
IT Associate, Morgan Stanley

Michael Kennedy

I figured my post would be an unpopular one, but I felt that some evil needed to be injected into this topic.  It's hard to argue with these results, though.  Now their network is secure and their data is safe(r) after just a little mischief on my part.
"If it ain't busted, don't fix it" is a very sound principal and remains so despite the fact that I have slavishly ignored it all my life. --Douglas Adams, "Salmon of Doubt"

Guest

2 wrongs don't equal a right.  Next time we'll just sneak into your home's window when it's cracked to let you know in the future that you shouldn't leave it open.

Michael Kennedy

Sometimes people who don't realize that they have a problem need to be let known.  Leaving a window open and breaking into a house is a horrible analogy.  Everyone knows to lock their doors, but does everyone know to use 128bit encryption on their wireless connections?
"If it ain't busted, don't fix it" is a very sound principal and remains so despite the fact that I have slavishly ignored it all my life. --Douglas Adams, "Salmon of Doubt"

Guest

Do people in the country lock their doors?  Probably not.

raptor

Umm, well lets see here, I live in the country.  And uhh, I can guarantee that everyone I know locks there doors.  Now so far I haven't gotten into to this ethical issue only told my story.  So here is how I see it.

YOU CANNOT RELATE THIS MATTER TO THAT OF DOORS AND WINDOWS.

Why?

Because those are both matters where people(in general) completely understand how they work, what they do and the risks involved with leaving them open.  

Wireless networks are a different mattter.  The general public is simply not knowledgable enough to know whats going on.  In my case I DID NOT go LOOKING for the network, I happened to run across it.  And in all honesty I chose to send them the letter because I hope that someone would have the common curtousey to do the same for me.  

I could care less whether or not they could sue the pants off of me.  I would have had a guilty conscious knowing that all that personal confidential info was out there and I had the ability to help protect it and did nothing.  

I see it as a matter or doing whats right, regardless of what keeps my own butt out of the sling.  Hell, if we always did what the law, and lawyers say is right we would never make progress as human beings.  For crying out loud our Fore Fathers could have been killed for the risks they took , and they are the reason we have out FREE country.  

You cannot always go by what someone says is right or wrong.  You MUST go by what you KNOW is right.

Scott

*end rant*
President of CAOS
Software Engineer NASA Nspires/Roses Grant

Guest

You don't know many country people then.  I know lots that don't lock their doors.  Also, who are you to say you are right?  Just because you think you are right doesn't mean you are; people need to learn things on their own.  And you're right, they could possibly sue you, especially if you caused them financial loss.

Guest

QuoteYOU CANNOT RELATE THIS MATTER TO THAT OF DOORS AND WINDOWS.

Why?

Because those are both matters where people(in general) completely understand how they work, what they do and the risks involved with leaving them open.

Wireless networks are a different mattter.

AMEN.  Raptor and I are on the same page, it seems.  Ignorance is a problem that should be fixed- one way or another.

Michael Kennedy

The bigger question is this- why do I keep forgetting to log in before posting?  :)
"If it ain't busted, don't fix it" is a very sound principal and remains so despite the fact that I have slavishly ignored it all my life. --Douglas Adams, "Salmon of Doubt"

raptor

Just as a side note, the few people I live around (in the country) that don't lock there doors are the kinda people I wouldn't want to meet in the middle of the night.  Being on the recieving end of a shot gun isn't my idea of fun, but its what some of us call state 'o art security system.  Fixes the problem, everytime.  Guaranteed not to return.  :gunfire:
President of CAOS
Software Engineer NASA Nspires/Roses Grant

Geoff Schreiber

Bring this back from the dead after the guy in WA got arrested for mooching on a coffee shop's WiFi for 3 months without a purchase...

Found this article on IL law and WiFi usage:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060323-6447.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Geoff Schreiber
Project Engineer
FASTechnology Group