Physics Colloquium: Why do engineering programs require physics?

[Ross Mead]

I recently received the following e-mail and thought some people may be interested:

Dear Colleagues,

   This Thursday, March 2, Professor Foster will be presenting
a Colloquium in the Physics department of particular interest to
faculty and students in the Engineering disciplines as well as
other fields. The talk will address the role of Physics courses
in the training of Engineering students. Please see the attached
poster for details.

   All are welcome!

         Sincerely,

         Jack Glassman
         Department of Physics

Note that it refers to an "attached poster"... well, here's the content of that poster:

Department of Physics Colloquium

Professor Thomas Foster
Department of Physics and Office of Science and Math Education
SIUE

Thursday, March 2, 2006
3:30 p.m. SL0210

Why do engineering programs require physics?:
Preparing the SIUE Engineering Major


ABSTRACT

The Department of Physics has been working on a redesign of our major programs, which will have implications for what topics get taught in the introductory sequence.  However, the engineering programs at SIUE provide approximately 70% of the student population to this sequence.  So before any changes could be made we needed an answer to a simple question:  Why do engineering programs require physics?
During the 2005 Fall Semester, a survey was distributed among engineering instructors and faculty to answer this question.  The results of this survey will be presented and contrasted to results of a similar survey given at the University of Minnesota. Finally, these results were compared with the topics and goals of our current â€Ã...“Phys211â€Ã, sequence.  A proposed version of the sequence will be presented for feedback and comments.


All faculty, students, and guests are welcome to attend. Engineering faculty and students as well as Physics majors and minors are particularly encouraged to attend.


Refreshments will be served in SL2311 at 3:00 p.m.

For future Colloquia schedule, see website:  www.siue.edu/PHYSICS/seminars.html

If anyone has ever asked, "Why do I need to know this?", this is definitely an opportunity to get your answer.

I plan on attending if time permits; hope to see you there! :-)

[Bryan]

I still readily maintain that I don't need to know physics.  Apparently the university agreed beause I graduated with my B.S. without ever taking a single phsyics class.

[Geoff Schreiber]

Tom taught my physics class when I took it - as a test program for a new style of physics.  He's a great presenter, and it's one of the best courses I had at SIUE.  I would suggest attending just for the chance to see his views!

[DaleDoe]

A BS degree without physics?  I thought you had to take it.  You might not need physics, but I write software for CAD and Metrology systems, so it is necessary for my job.  

Linear Algebra is one class I was certain I'd never need again, but I was wrong.

 8-)

[Jerry]

ModernDayDarwin wrote:
I still readily maintain that I don't need to know physics.  Apparently the university agreed beause I graduated with my B.S. without ever taking a single phsyics class.

Hmmmmm, I'll look into it tomorrow - we might have to revoke your degree  :lol:

[Bryan]

If you read the degree requirements carefully you have to take one 2 semester science program Chemistry OR Phsycis and 1 extra lab sicence.  I simply took 2 semesters of chemistry and 1 of biology.  I'm not saying Chemistry will do me any more good, but it's definately more of an interest to me than physics.



p.s. this post was aimed more at DaleDoe than Dr. J, I'm not implying he needs to read the degree recs carefully....I hope!  :lol:

[brickboy]

"I still readily maintain that I don't need to know physics. "

Being a CompE, I have taken many ECE and CS classes.  The background that I recieved in my physics courses has been very beneficial to my ECE courses where ,for example, electromagnetic fields and waves were analyzed.  However, for CS classes i agree they don't help much.  I'm not saying CS is easier or requires less knowledge then Engineering, but I am saying that "software engineering" is a little different from something like "electrical engineering" in the science background you require.

[Bryan]

I work for a consulting firm and as such I tend to do a lot of projects where I'm completely clueless about the subject matter.  For insance: agriculture. I did a project back in August for a global agricultural company.  I have absolutely no experience with agriculture.  I think that pretty much sums up computer science.

If you are a software engineer you better be prepared to adapt.  if you aren't working in a highly specialized area, then you will be doing a lot of different things and be called upon to learn new things.  I think that you can take any subject and apply computer science to it.  Whereas if you try and take computer science and apply a subject to it...well then you might be a little out of luck

[Ross Mead]

Well, take note that this is applying to all engineering majors, and not just computer science.  Physics provides a nice basis for many of our engineering programs, and most often is necessary to succeed in some classes.  For example, the introductory electrical engineering courses require you to have at least taken the first semester of physics and to be enrolled in the second semester.  Physics is also a great way to expand your outlook on the world around you.  Between classes and labs, students gain a true understanding by actually working and interacting with their environment.

"Knowledge is only part of understanding.  Genuine understanding comes from hands-on experience."
-- Dr. Seymour Papert, Professor of Learning Research, Massachusetts Institute of Technology

The physics courses tend to be mentally stimulating for students, and generally produces curiousity and creativity.  I think these physics courses are a pivotal in the engineering experience.  True, we do have to think on our feet, adapt, and learn new topics that we may not be familiar with, but that's the case of almost any major.  At a university where the focus is a well-rounded education, I think physics is simply a great way to top it off.

On a side note, Dr. Glassman had mentioned to me that, because of the apparent popularity of this thread, he had asked their secretary to get extra cookies in hopes that maybe some of us would show up.  The refreshments will be served in SL2311 at 3:00 p.m. (the talk will be in a separate room, SL0210, at 3:30 p.m.)  I know I'll be there!  I'm told that Dr. Foster would be glad to have someone debate him on this topic (in a friendly manner, of course), though,  now that I think about it, I'm not exactly sure what his side of the story is!  I guess I'll find out tomorrow... c-ya' there! :-)

[Bryan]

I feel after Ross mentioned it I should state some of my comments were aimed at ONLY C.S.  I readily admit the necessity of physics in the rest of the engineering majors.

[Jerry]

The Bachelor's program in CS is accredited, which means that it meets the standards set by the accrediting body.

The accreditation standards includes the following science requirements:

IV-12. The curriculum must include at least 12 semester hours of science.

IV-13. Course work in science must include the equivalent of a two-semester sequence in a laboratory science for science or engineering majors.

IV-14. Science course work additional to that specified in Standard IV-13 must be in science courses or courses that enhance the student's ability to apply the scientific method.

For more information visit

http://www.abet.org/

http://www.abet.org/Linked%20Documents-UPDATE/Criteria%20and%20PP/C001%2006-07%20CAC%20Criteria%202-9-06.pdf