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Big Bump for Movie Night. READ!!!

Started by Brad Nunnally, 2005-02-11T00:17:12-06:00 (Friday)

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Brad Nunnally

It seems that the almighty kimmel as decided to shut down our movie night. They are saying that we would be breaking a few copyright laws by showing these movies. In their great wisdom they decided to inform us of this today, Thurs. 10th, at around 6:30. We are trying to figure this out and save the night.

A general meeting WILL take place regardless of the turn of events. We will discuss kimmels decision and other official business. We will keep everyone informed as news reaches us. I would like to personally apologies for the mix up. Please understand we have no control over kimmel decision.

Brad Ty Nunnally
CAOS Vice-Pres.

"Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
Lord Acton
Brad Ty Nunnally
Business & Usabilty Consultant at Perficent
Former CAOS Hooligan

Ross Mead

Wow, of all the things I would have thought I'd be reading about at midnight, copyright laws was NOT it!  Sorry I couldn't check my mail earlier guys.  Here's the law:

The Federal Copyright Act (Title 17 of the United States Code) governs how copyrighted materials, such as movies, may be used.  Neither the rental nor the purchase of a videocassette carries with it the right to show the tape outside the home.

In some instances no license is required to view a videotape, such as inside the home by family or social acquaintances and in certain narrowly defined face-to-face teaching activities.

Taverns, restaurants, private clubs, prisons, lodges, factories, summer camps, public libraries, day-care facilities, parks and recreation departments, churches and non-classroom use at schools and universities are all examples of situations where a public performance license must be obtained.  This legal requirement applies regardless of whether an admission fee is charged, whether the institution or organization is commercial or non-profit, or whether a federal or state agency is involved.

In other words, according to that, we cannot show the movies tomorrow.  That being said, I'm still going to make an attempt tomorrow to speak to "those whom it concerns" at Kimmel and maybe use the arguments Brad sent out and others I've been looking up as some sort of justification.  It seems like a rather done deal, but there's no harm in trying.

Don't suppose anyone has a big screen and a popcorn machine in their basement do they?  Hope for the best, but plan for the worst guys; if anyone has any other suggestions or arguments, by all means, fill me in.

Thanx, and sorry for all this inconvenience!


This is so stupid.  We just say say we live in the Engineering building.
Retired CAOS Officer/Overachiever
SIUE Alumni Class of 2005

Ross Mead

Ha!  I agree, most of us practically do live here!

Does anyone have a copy of the 'Red vs. Blue' movies?  I've never seen them before and I don't know much about them, but I've heard a LOT of people talking about them and assumed that they were free.  Any way we could watch those instead?


I do have season II at home. I could go snag season I from my buddy, my copy is on loan at the moment.

The shows are free so there should not be a problem with us showing them. There is also a PSA dealing with Rooster Teeth giving their shows away for free.

If campus would like an okay we could email RoosterTeeth and probably get a response by tonight. And then we could print it out and shove it down their throats. Or maybe something not so drastic.

Schedual a copyright protest anyone?

The ME

Ross Mead

Yeah, 'Red vs. Blue' is sounding like a nice backup plan; there's always Kontraband and AlbinoBlackSheep, right!?! :-P

Unfortunately, as an organization of SIUE, our job is to work WITH Kimmel, even though sometimes they may not seem to be working in our favor.  I, and I'm sure everyone else on here, would agree that the situation sucks, but a copyright protest would probably get us into more trouble than it's worth.  After reading about this last night, I was really hot and ready to go all "Berkley-style" on Kimmel, but after cooling down a bit we have to be rational about things and think about what is best for our organization.

Thanx for all the great ideas guys; it's interesting to see how many of us were actually looking up copyright laws last night! :-P  Hopefully we can still pull off SOME sort of movie night off tonight.  I look forward to seeing everyone there!   :-)

R. Andrew Lamonica

I have all of them in "Free lowrez form" on my home computer.  However, I would have to burn them to a DVD to move them because my cable modem is not up to the task of moving GB of information to school in this short of a time.  Additionally, I have to work until five so it would be a close call.  If anyone else has a copy on-campus then you should ask them.  Otherwise, call my extension(x2398) and leave a message.

PS. I downloaded the "uncensored" versions so if anyone objects to profanity, blasphemy, or other verbal debasements then we should find the â€Ã...“Office Cleanâ€Ã, versions and start downloading now because there are 48 of them.


Are we watching RVB or not? Should I contact Rooster Teeth to satisfy Kimmel?

I was thinking of the copyright protest as a future event, not tonight. More so the length of copyrights as opposed to copyrights in general. Maybe I should stop typing. I will.


I found this on Movie Licensing USA’s faq: http://www.movlic.com/

"Q: I thought schools were exempt from needing a license to legally use copyrighted movies in a school.

A: According to the U.S. Copyright Revision Act, a school can exhibit a copyrighted entertainment movie legally without permission of the copyright owner only if the exhibition takes place in a classroom setting where a teacher is in attendance and the movie is an essential element of the current curriculum."

So my interpretation of this is if we make an educational event like connecting the movie to a topic like (The Ethics of Hacking or Technology Policy & Popular Culture) and I or some other instructor gives a short presentation and leads a discussion, then it is fair use.

The questions was with regard to K-12 Public schools, but it is likely to apply to Higher Ed too.

You might consider approaching Kimmel with this

"Make a Little Bird House in Your Soul" - TMBG...

Chris Swingler

QuotePS. I downloaded the "uncensored" versions so if anyone objects to profanity, blasphemy, or other verbal debasements then we should find the â€Ã...“Office Cleanâ€Ã, versions and start downloading now because there are 48 of them.

Judging that Hackers was rated PG-13, I'd doubt it'll be a problem.
Christopher Swingler
CAOS Web Administrator

Ross Mead

Dr. Blythe has been speaking to Cheryl from Kimmel all morning trying to resolve this.  My impression was that we couldn't get around this without a license.  He is proposing the idea of 'Red vs. Blue' now, and preferably will get back to us on the forums as opposed to simply e-mail.

I have class from 12-4, so I'm really wondering how this is gonna' turn out! :-P Good luck all! :-P


I agree with Dr. Weinberg.  I've watched movies in school that relate to the topic at hand.  I watched Dave in my high school civics class and I'm sure we didn't get sued or pay any royalty on it.  I also took a Film as Literature class in high school and all we did was watch movies.

But I guess we shouldn't do it if it will get Kimmel really mad at us.  
Retired CAOS Officer/Overachiever
SIUE Alumni Class of 2005

Dr. Stephen Blythe

I am currently waiting to hear back from Cheryl Heard at Kimmel regarding the Red vs. Blue idea. In the mean time, I'd say make plans to go ahead with it - but NOT with DVD's that someone purchased/acquired. If someone has DVD's that they have burned from downloaded versions, we could use that. Otherwise we'll have to have a "virtual projectionist" that downloads and plays movies - of course a good projectionist would multitask and download the "next" one while the current one is playing ...

For those interested, I'm appending the copyright law that was quoted by Kimmel. The letter of the law claims that any copyrighted movie showings MUST be part of a curriculum, and students outside the curriculum cannot watch it (without  permission form the appropriate movie company). This is the part that Kimmel is hung up on (i.e. items 2 and 6 in the guidelines listed below). It's also why there is no problem with watching the movies in classes - they are clearly allowed by these guidelines.

  -Dr. Blythe

Section 110 of the 1984 Copyright Act does provide a specific exemption to the licensing of what is clearly a public performance-"Face-to-face teaching."

To qualify for the exemption, the showing must occur in a face-to-face teaching situation at a non-profit educational institution and meet all of the following six criteria.

1. Performances and displays of audiovisual works must be made from legitimate copies, including pre-recorded videocassettes;

    -not copies from legitimate copies
    -not copies from broadcasts

2. Performances and displays must be part of a systematic course of instruction and not for entertainment, recreation, or cultural value of any part of the audience;

    -Instructor should be able to show how the use of the motion picture contributes to the overall course study and syllabus.
    -Course does not have to be a credit course but must be one recognized by the university and for which people register.

3. Performances and displays must be given by the instructors or pupils;

     -No broadcasting from outside sources.

4. Performances and displays must be given in classrooms and other places devoted to instruction;

    -Library screening rooms, residence hall lounges, rathskellers and cafeterias do not qualify.

5. Performances and displays must be a part of the teaching activities of non- profit educational institutions;

    -Businesses that conduct educational seminars and some technical schools do not qualify.

6. Attendance is limited to the instructors, pupils (i.e., guest lecturers.

    -Only people registered for the class may attend the screening. No fee specific to the showing may be charged.

The videocassette which you are showing must have been lawfully made and required (i.e., you are not pemitted to make copies of a protected work for use in the classroom).

The exemption only applies to "face-to-face teaching activities which requires that the teacher and students be in the vicinity of the video performance. Broadcasting and other transmission from an outside location into classrooms whether by radio or television and whether open
or closed circuited is not permitted.

The exemption is available only to non-profit educational institutions.

The exemption applies only to performances rendered "in the course of teaching activities" involving systematic instruction. The exemption does not apply to performances given for recreation or entertainment purposes.

The performance must take place in a classroom or similar place devoted to instruction, which may include a gymnasium, training field. library or auditorium if it is actually used as a classroom for systematic instructional activities. However, the exemption is not applicable to performances in an auditorium or stadium during a school assembly, graduation ceremony, class play or sporting event where the audience is not confined to the members of a particular class. The exemption is for classroom, not school,


Are you encouraging illegal downloading off those rougue pirate networks?  Somebody with some actual bandwidth should download them for tonight.  We all know how reliable and quick the CV internet is so that counts me out.
Retired CAOS Officer/Overachiever
SIUE Alumni Class of 2005

R. Andrew Lamonica

I did not know that Red Vs. Blue was illegal to copy.  If it is then http://archive.org is violating the law and I am not encouraging that behavior.