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CAOS Weekly Philosophy: How important is a title anyway?

Started by Brad Nunnally, 2005-04-05T17:36:19-05:00 (Tuesday)

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Brad Nunnally

In light of the recent debate concerning the importance between a computer nerd and a computer scientist I thought it might be constructive to discuss this in a broader sense.

In the computer science field alone there are numerous titles. From software analyst to database manager to the lowly tech support. What does all this mean though? Does being a level 3 system administrator make you any better of a person than a level 1 or 2? Even in the educational field at universities titles are a big thing. I can recall of at least 3 past professors that insisted on being called doctor, and if you didn't your were punished.

Aren't these titles nothing but words? Personally I don't care what you call me as long as it is accurate. I will be the first one to tell you what I am. If you want to do a logic argument if your a computer scientist and if your a computer nerd, then you are a computer scientist nerd

 :-D .

Brad Ty Nunnally
CAOS Vice-Pres.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." ?
Brad Ty Nunnally
Business & Usabilty Consultant at Perficent
Former CAOS Hooligan

DaleDoe

My title is "Programmer/Analyst Engineering Scientific Level 1".  I was offered another job with the same company at the same time as a "Software Engineer."  Same pay, same job.  The difference is which division of the company I work for.

Titles are meaningless--unless you're CIO or the Pope or something.  What matters is what you actually do at your job.  The level is somewhat meaningful as it affects your pay, sometimes cubicle size, who gets laid off, etc.  It doesn't necessarily mean you're any better at your job, though.  Just like having a degree.

Speaking of such, the only title of mine I care about is on my degree: Master of Science.  Sounds powerful, doesn't it?   :-D In fact, I'm going to insist that everyone call me Master. ;-) [img align=left]http://members.aol.com/browrob549/emo/whacky084.gif[/img]
"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." -James Madison

Jerry

Well, titles serve more than one purpose.

Titles are a system of classification. Classificaton systems are an important knowledge concept we use to divide the world to make it easier to reason and make decisions.

For example, we all have a classification for "dangerous animals". When we see a member of this class, we stop, we steer clear, we run in the opposite direction.

One area of machine learning studies what makes a good class. This is called "Conceptual Clustering". Clustering members into classes that share a common set of attributes.

I did my dissertation in this area and studied a model of clustering that traded off perdictability with predictiveness: how predictable is an attribute of a class and how predictive is a class of an attribute.

The point is that titles can be a useful classification system. For example, they help us predict who can be the most helpful in answering a question: tech support or a level 3 system adminstrator or a db manager.

The example BlueDragon gives is using a title as a sign of respect. This is more of social issue.
"Make a Little Bird House in Your Soul" - TMBG...

Jonathan Birch

This reminds me of a branch of sociology know as 'labeling theory'.

The basic idea is that when people are ascribed with some particular classification by society, they tend to live up to the expectations of that classification. The image that a person perceives society to have of them tends to become the image they have of themselves.

This is usually applied to theories of crime, as it's believed that labeling a person as a 'delinquent' or a 'criminal' will often lead them to become that, even if they weren't previously. This is one of the reasons you will sometimes hear of juvenile criminals being released with only a warning; there's an expectation that not applying a criminal label to them may reduce the chances that they will repeat their crimes.

Similarly, I expect that calling a person a 'nerd' may lead them to act in ways they perceive as proper for that role. Since the label 'nerd' characterizes a type of behavior that is considered deviant, this can have the effect of distancing the person from society.

An argument could also be made that titles are often the basis for prejudgement. Hence, a person who is called 'Dr.' will generally be afforded more initial respect than a person simply called 'Professor'.

From either argument I would state that it's quite significant what names we choose for ourselves and others.
...

Tyler

An interesting point too is that titles can make someone sound much more important/intelligent than they may actually be.  For instance, to the IRS I am Chief Technical Officer for Advance Security Products, Inc.  But does that mean I have a corner office and make > $100,000/year?  I wish.  I do a whole lot there, but I am CTO because we only have 4 employees, and I know the most about technical stuff (computers, websites, html, etc).  I'm not putting myself down or saying that I am incompetent or don't deserve it, I'm justing pointing it out as an interesting side argument.

~tfizzle
Retired CAOS Officer/Overachiever
SIUE Alumni Class of 2005

Cliff

While titles are not of much use in convincing people of your intelligence, they are useful in describing what you do.

Differences in the job responsibilities associated with a title vary from company to company.  This is most evident in the job search process.  For example, if I put "Scientific Analyst Level 1" on my resume, what did I do in that job?  Or, if I'm looking for a job that in my company might be called "Systems Engineer Level 2", what might this job be called at another company?  As far as I know, there is no standard definition of these titles in computer science as there is in other professions, like the difference between a proctologist and a dermatologist.

Would it be helpful if an organization like ACM gave guidelines like "if your job responsibilities are x,y,z, then you are a " ?  That way there would be a global understanding of what you do in your job given a certain title. </div> </div><!-- .post --> <div class="under_message"> <ul class="floatleft"> </ul> </div><!-- .under_message --> </div><!-- .postarea --> <div class="moderatorbar"> </div><!-- .moderatorbar --> </div><!-- .post_wrapper --> </div><!-- $message[css_class] --> <hr class="post_separator"> <div class="windowbg" id="msg4664"> <div class="post_wrapper"> <div class="poster"> <h4> <span class="off" title="Offline"></span> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?action=profile;u=343" title="View the profile of John Eachus">John Eachus</a> </h4> <ul class="user_info"> <li class="avatar"> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?action=profile;u=343"><img class="avatar" src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/avatars/default.png" alt=""></a> </li> <li class="icons"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"></li> <li class="postgroup">Rookie</li> <li class="postcount">Posts: 28</li> <li class="profile"> <ol class="profile_icons"> <li><a href="http://www.elitegamingonline.com" title="http://www.elitegamingonline.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><span class="main_icons www centericon" title="http://www.elitegamingonline.com"></span></a></li> </ol> </li><!-- .profile --> <li class="poster_ip">Logged</li> </ul> </div><!-- .poster --> <div class="postarea"> <div class="keyinfo"> <div id="subject_4664" class="subject_title subject_hidden"> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?msg=4664" rel="nofollow">Re: CAOS Weekly Philosophy: How important is a title anyway?</a> </div> <span class="page_number floatright">#6</span> <div class="postinfo"> <span class="messageicon" style="position: absolute; z-index: -1;"> <img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/post/xx.png" alt=""> </span> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?msg=4664" rel="nofollow" title="Reply #6 - Re: CAOS Weekly Philosophy: How important is a title anyway?" class="smalltext">2005-04-08T13:20:33-05:00 (Friday)</a> <span class="spacer"></span> <span class="smalltext modified floatright" id="modified_4664"> </span> </div> <div id="msg_4664_quick_mod"></div> </div><!-- .keyinfo --> <div class="post"> <div class="inner" data-msgid="4664" id="msg_4664"> Titles in Tech fields generally come with requirements.  This way companies can filter out people without having to look at the resumes too hard.  <br><br>If you don't meet minimum requirements and the resume goes in the trash.  <br><br>Although the standards are not the same in each company, it is a poor company that does not let future employees know what they are looking for.<br><br>I've been everything from Janitor to Hardware Maintenance to Senior System Engineer and then some.  Generally I ignore titles and look at job descriptions, qualifications, and pay.<br><br>John Eachus (insert useless acronym here) </div> </div><!-- .post --> <div class="under_message"> <ul class="floatleft"> </ul> </div><!-- .under_message --> </div><!-- .postarea --> <div class="moderatorbar"> <div class="signature" id="msg_4664_signature"> John Eachus<br>Elite Gaming LLC<br>618-659-0908<br>http:www.elitegamingonline.com... </div> </div><!-- .moderatorbar --> </div><!-- .post_wrapper --> </div><!-- $message[css_class] --> <hr class="post_separator"> <div class="windowbg" id="msg4666"> <div class="post_wrapper"> <div class="poster"> <h4> <span class="off" title="Offline"></span> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?action=profile;u=336" title="View the profile of Bryan">Bryan</a> </h4> <ul class="user_info"> <li class="avatar"> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?action=profile;u=336"><img class="avatar" src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/avatars/default.png" alt=""></a> </li> <li class="icons"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"></li> <li class="postgroup">Hero Member</li> <li class="postcount">Posts: 646</li> <li class="im_icons"> <ol> <li class="custom cust_gender"><span class=" main_icons gender_0" title="Male"></span></li> </ol> </li> <li class="custom cust_loca">Location: Knoxville, TN</li> <li class="poster_ip">Logged</li> </ul> </div><!-- .poster --> <div class="postarea"> <div class="keyinfo"> <div id="subject_4666" class="subject_title subject_hidden"> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?msg=4666" rel="nofollow">Re: CAOS Weekly Philosophy: How important is a title anyway?</a> </div> <span class="page_number floatright">#7</span> <div class="postinfo"> <span class="messageicon" style="position: absolute; z-index: -1;"> <img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/post/xx.png" alt=""> </span> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?msg=4666" rel="nofollow" title="Reply #7 - Re: CAOS Weekly Philosophy: How important is a title anyway?" class="smalltext">2005-04-09T17:05:18-05:00 (Saturday)</a> <span class="spacer"></span> <span class="smalltext modified floatright" id="modified_4666"> </span> </div> <div id="msg_4666_quick_mod"></div> </div><!-- .keyinfo --> <div class="post"> <div class="inner" data-msgid="4666" id="msg_4666"> the title is completely irrelevant there are only two words that matter a hill of beans...<br><br><br>Tenured & Seniority. </div> </div><!-- .post --> <div class="under_message"> <ul class="floatleft"> </ul> </div><!-- .under_message --> </div><!-- .postarea --> <div class="moderatorbar"> <div class="signature" id="msg_4666_signature"> Bryan Grubaugh<br />Quickly aging alumni with too much time on his hands<br />Business Systems Analyst, Scripps Networks. </div> </div><!-- .moderatorbar --> </div><!-- .post_wrapper --> </div><!-- $message[css_class] --> <hr class="post_separator"> <div class="windowbg" id="msg4667"> <div class="post_wrapper"> <div class="poster"> <h4> <span class="off" title="Offline"></span> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?action=profile;u=103" title="View the profile of Jerry">Jerry</a> </h4> <ul class="user_info"> <li class="membergroup">Administrator</li> <li class="avatar"> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?action=profile;u=103"><img class="avatar" src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/avatars/Old CAOS/cavt3e7f4cebbf384.gif" alt=""></a> </li> <li class="icons"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/iconadmin.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/iconadmin.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/iconadmin.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/iconadmin.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/iconadmin.png" alt="*"></li> <li class="postgroup">Hero Member</li> <li class="postcount">Posts: 800</li> <li class="profile"> <ol class="profile_icons"> <li><a href="http://www.cs.siue.edu" title="http://www.cs.siue.edu" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><span class="main_icons www centericon" title="http://www.cs.siue.edu"></span></a></li> </ol> </li><!-- .profile --> <li class="poster_ip">Logged</li> </ul> </div><!-- .poster --> <div class="postarea"> <div class="keyinfo"> <div id="subject_4667" class="subject_title subject_hidden"> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?msg=4667" rel="nofollow">Re: CAOS Weekly Philosophy: How important is a title anyway?</a> </div> <span class="page_number floatright">#8</span> <div class="postinfo"> <span class="messageicon" style="position: absolute; z-index: -1;"> <img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/post/xx.png" alt=""> </span> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?msg=4667" rel="nofollow" title="Reply #8 - Re: CAOS Weekly Philosophy: How important is a title anyway?" class="smalltext">2005-04-09T20:43:56-05:00 (Saturday)</a> <span class="spacer"></span> <span class="smalltext modified floatright" id="modified_4667"> </span> </div> <div id="msg_4667_quick_mod"></div> </div><!-- .keyinfo --> <div class="post"> <div class="inner" data-msgid="4667" id="msg_4667"> <blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote"><cite>Quote</cite>ModernDayDarwin wrote:<br>the title is completely irrelevant there are only two words that matter a hill of beans...<br><br><br>Tenured & Seniority.</blockquote><br>This is a very caloused veiw of professorship, I hope you aren't labeling all of us tenured professors negatively (or at least I hope not me  ;-) ).<br><br>Don't confuse the issue of titles with that of power. While titles provide some clue as to a person's knowledge base and responsibilities, they may not always reflect the level of power someone has in an organization.<br><br><br> </div> </div><!-- .post --> <div class="under_message"> <ul class="floatleft"> </ul> </div><!-- .under_message --> </div><!-- .postarea --> <div class="moderatorbar"> <div class="signature" id="msg_4667_signature"> "Make a Little Bird House in Your Soul" - TMBG... </div> </div><!-- .moderatorbar --> </div><!-- .post_wrapper --> </div><!-- $message[css_class] --> <hr class="post_separator"> <div class="windowbg" id="msg4670"> <div class="post_wrapper"> <div class="poster"> <h4> <span class="off" title="Offline"></span> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?action=profile;u=336" title="View the profile of Bryan">Bryan</a> </h4> <ul class="user_info"> <li class="avatar"> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?action=profile;u=336"><img class="avatar" src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/avatars/default.png" alt=""></a> </li> <li class="icons"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"></li> <li class="postgroup">Hero Member</li> <li class="postcount">Posts: 646</li> <li class="im_icons"> <ol> <li class="custom cust_gender"><span class=" main_icons gender_0" title="Male"></span></li> </ol> </li> <li class="custom cust_loca">Location: Knoxville, TN</li> <li class="poster_ip">Logged</li> </ul> </div><!-- .poster --> <div class="postarea"> <div class="keyinfo"> <div id="subject_4670" class="subject_title subject_hidden"> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?msg=4670" rel="nofollow">Re: CAOS Weekly Philosophy: How important is a title anyway?</a> </div> <span class="page_number floatright">#9</span> <div class="postinfo"> <span class="messageicon" style="position: absolute; z-index: -1;"> <img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/post/xx.png" alt=""> </span> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?msg=4670" rel="nofollow" title="Reply #9 - Re: CAOS Weekly Philosophy: How important is a title anyway?" class="smalltext">2005-04-09T21:45:10-05:00 (Saturday)</a> <span class="spacer"></span> <span class="smalltext modified floatright" id="modified_4670"> </span> </div> <div id="msg_4670_quick_mod"></div> </div><!-- .keyinfo --> <div class="post"> <div class="inner" data-msgid="4670" id="msg_4670"> Tenure and Seniority are two very needed and important things.  That being said they are also two very abused and misused things.  There needs to be reprocussions for their misuse, which I currently do not see.  Some slight modifications to the way it's handled would probably fix it..<br><br><br>edit: and no I'm not holding all all tenured professors in negative light, it was more of a joke than anything. </div> </div><!-- .post --> <div class="under_message"> <ul class="floatleft"> </ul> </div><!-- .under_message --> </div><!-- .postarea --> <div class="moderatorbar"> <div class="signature" id="msg_4670_signature"> Bryan Grubaugh<br />Quickly aging alumni with too much time on his hands<br />Business Systems Analyst, Scripps Networks. </div> </div><!-- .moderatorbar --> </div><!-- .post_wrapper --> </div><!-- $message[css_class] --> <hr class="post_separator"> <div class="windowbg" id="msg4672"> <div class="post_wrapper"> <div class="poster"> <h4> <span class="off" title="Offline"></span> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?action=profile;u=331" title="View the profile of Tyler">Tyler</a> </h4> <ul class="user_info"> <li class="avatar"> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?action=profile;u=331"><img class="avatar" src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/avatars/default.png" alt=""></a> </li> <li class="icons"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"></li> <li class="postgroup">Hero Member</li> <li class="postcount">Posts: 479</li> <li class="profile"> <ol class="profile_icons"> <li><a href="http://www.tfizzle.com/" title="http://www.tfizzle.com/" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><span class="main_icons www centericon" title="http://www.tfizzle.com/"></span></a></li> </ol> </li><!-- .profile --> <li class="poster_ip">Logged</li> </ul> </div><!-- .poster --> <div class="postarea"> <div class="keyinfo"> <div id="subject_4672" class="subject_title subject_hidden"> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?msg=4672" rel="nofollow">Re: CAOS Weekly Philosophy: How important is a title anyway?</a> </div> <span class="page_number floatright">#10</span> <div class="postinfo"> <span class="messageicon" style="position: absolute; z-index: -1;"> <img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/post/xx.png" alt=""> </span> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?msg=4672" rel="nofollow" title="Reply #10 - Re: CAOS Weekly Philosophy: How important is a title anyway?" class="smalltext">2005-04-10T22:00:16-05:00 (Sunday)</a> <span class="spacer"></span> <span class="smalltext modified floatright" id="modified_4672"> </span> </div> <div id="msg_4672_quick_mod"></div> </div><!-- .keyinfo --> <div class="post"> <div class="inner" data-msgid="4672" id="msg_4672"> I bet you're thinking of a certain professor mddarwin.<br><br>a coodah is a whatah!!! </div> </div><!-- .post --> <div class="under_message"> <ul class="floatleft"> </ul> </div><!-- .under_message --> </div><!-- .postarea --> <div class="moderatorbar"> <div class="signature" id="msg_4672_signature"> Retired CAOS Officer/Overachiever<br>SIUE Alumni Class of 2005 </div> </div><!-- .moderatorbar --> </div><!-- .post_wrapper --> </div><!-- $message[css_class] --> <hr class="post_separator"> <div class="windowbg" id="msg4674"> <div class="post_wrapper"> <div class="poster"> <h4> <span class="off" title="Offline"></span> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?action=profile;u=336" title="View the profile of Bryan">Bryan</a> </h4> <ul class="user_info"> <li class="avatar"> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?action=profile;u=336"><img class="avatar" src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/avatars/default.png" alt=""></a> </li> <li class="icons"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"><img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/membericons/icon.png" alt="*"></li> <li class="postgroup">Hero Member</li> <li class="postcount">Posts: 646</li> <li class="im_icons"> <ol> <li class="custom cust_gender"><span class=" main_icons gender_0" title="Male"></span></li> </ol> </li> <li class="custom cust_loca">Location: Knoxville, TN</li> <li class="poster_ip">Logged</li> </ul> </div><!-- .poster --> <div class="postarea"> <div class="keyinfo"> <div id="subject_4674" class="subject_title subject_hidden"> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?msg=4674" rel="nofollow">Re: CAOS Weekly Philosophy: How important is a title anyway?</a> </div> <span class="page_number floatright">#11</span> <div class="postinfo"> <span class="messageicon" style="position: absolute; z-index: -1;"> <img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Themes/default/images/post/xx.png" alt=""> </span> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?msg=4674" rel="nofollow" title="Reply #11 - Re: CAOS Weekly Philosophy: How important is a title anyway?" class="smalltext">2005-04-11T12:35:18-05:00 (Monday)</a> <span class="spacer"></span> <span class="smalltext modified floatright" id="modified_4674"> </span> </div> <div id="msg_4674_quick_mod"></div> </div><!-- .keyinfo --> <div class="post"> <div class="inner" data-msgid="4674" id="msg_4674">  <img src="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/Smileys/caos/drunk.gif" alt=":drunk:" title="drunk" class="smiley"> </div> </div><!-- .post --> <div class="under_message"> <ul class="floatleft"> </ul> </div><!-- .under_message --> </div><!-- .postarea --> <div class="moderatorbar"> <div class="signature" id="msg_4674_signature"> Bryan Grubaugh<br />Quickly aging alumni with too much time on his hands<br />Business Systems Analyst, Scripps Networks. </div> </div><!-- .moderatorbar --> </div><!-- .post_wrapper --> </div><!-- $message[css_class] --> <hr class="post_separator"> </form> </div><!-- #forumposts --> <div class="pagesection"> <div class="buttonlist floatright"> <a class="button button_strip_print" href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?action=printpage;topic=880.0" rel="nofollow">Print</a> </div> <div class="pagelinks floatleft"> <a href="#main_content_section" class="button" id="bot">Go Up</a> <span class="pages">Pages</span><span class="current_page">1</span> </div> <div class="mobile_buttons floatright"> <a class="button mobile_act">User actions</a> </div> </div> <div class="navigate_section"> <ul> <li> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php"><span>Computer Association of SIUE - Forums</span></a> </li> <li> <span class="dividers"> ► </span> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php#c1"><span>CAOS Forums</span></a> </li> <li> <span class="dividers"> ► </span> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?board=15.0"><span>Lounge</span></a> </li> <li class="last"> <span class="dividers"> ► </span> <a href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?topic=880.0"><span>CAOS Weekly Philosophy: How important is a title anyway?</span></a> </li> </ul> </div><!-- .navigate_section --> <div id="moderationbuttons"> </div> <div id="display_jump_to"></div> <div id="mobile_action" class="popup_container"> <div class="popup_window description"> <div class="popup_heading"> User actions <a href="javascript:void(0);" class="main_icons hide_popup"></a> </div> <div class="buttonlist"> <a class="button button_strip_print" href="https://caos.cs.siue.edu/index.php?action=printpage;topic=880.0" rel="nofollow">Print</a> </div> </div> </div> <script> if ('XMLHttpRequest' in window) { var oQuickModify = new QuickModify({ sScriptUrl: smf_scripturl, sClassName: 'quick_edit', bShowModify: true, iTopicId: 880, sTemplateBodyEdit: '\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div id="quick_edit_body_container">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div id="error_box" class="error"><' + '/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<textarea class="editor" name="message" rows="12" tabindex="1">%body%<' + '/textarea><br>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input type="hidden" name="e3ad3a1" value="1f61611c30ffad249bb74934e2eda292">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input type="hidden" name="topic" value="880">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input type="hidden" name="msg" value="%msg_id%">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class="righttext quickModifyMargin">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input type="submit" name="post" value="Save" tabindex="2" onclick="return oQuickModify.modifySave(\'1f61611c30ffad249bb74934e2eda292\', \'e3ad3a1\');" accesskey="s" class="button"> <input type="submit" name="cancel" value="Cancel" tabindex="3" onclick="return oQuickModify.modifyCancel();" class="button">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<' + '/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<' + '/div>', sTemplateSubjectEdit: '<input type="text" name="subject" value="%subject%" size="80" maxlength="80" tabindex="4">', sTemplateBodyNormal: '%body%', sTemplateSubjectNormal: '<a hr'+'ef="' + smf_scripturl + '?topic=880.msg%msg_id%#msg%msg_id%" rel="nofollow">%subject%<' + '/a>', sTemplateTopSubject: '%subject%', sTemplateReasonEdit: 'Reason for editing: <input type="text" name="modify_reason" value="%modify_reason%" size="80" maxlength="80" tabindex="5" class="quickModifyMargin">', sTemplateReasonNormal: '%modify_text', sErrorBorderStyle: '1px solid red' }); 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