Detrimental Generalizations: Geek and Nerd

[Jerry]

Well, if you don't think that the characterization of "geek" or "nerd" is detrimental, check out this book:

Leading Geeks: How to Manage and Lead the People Who Deliver Technology

No, this is not a humor book, it is written as a serious view of "geeks" for managers.

Here's an excerpt from the review:

He does an excellent job of enumerating geek characteristics and the context in which geekwork takes place, providing ample material on what works with geeks and what doesn't, such as "intrinsic" or "extrinsic" motivators, and valuable advice, like "never underestimate the power of free food."

[Bryan]

This is the coolest thing in the world! I WANT THIS BOOK!

[Guest]

i dont really see this as a problem.

first there are a number of challanges when leading a technical team. effectivly meshing business needs with technological talent can be difficult. as 'geeks' our needs are very different from what motivates people in other departments. i havent read the book but i can see a definite oppertunity for non-techinical managers of technical groups to gain an understanding of the people they manage.

second i dont work with anyone who could be considered a 'geek' who wouldnt admit to it proudly. i dont understand why this title would bother anyone. all of the 'geeks' i work with have good lives by all social standards. we have good jobs, we live comfortably, most all of us are married or dating, we go out & have fun with our friends, etc.

i could understand being offended if being 'geeks' denoted something negative. the only thing that this title really tells people about me is an ability i possess (working with technology). the problem comes in when someone (be it the geek or non-geek) invests too much in a word and makes it something more.

[Tyler]

I agree.

I can't think of one person that is quite computer savvy that would not quickly admit to being a nerd or geek.  

And, you must admit, the geeks of today are the millionaires of tomorrow.  How many tremendously wealthy people today are "cool" (minus movie, music, and sports stars)?

[Jerry]

cynic006 wrote:
 all of the 'geeks' i work with have good lives by all social standards. we have good jobs, we live comfortably, most all of us are married or dating, we go out & have fun with our friends, etc.

This is just the point I'm trying to make. In the profession "geek" connotates a knowledge of science and technology (as you also noted). However, outside of the profession it also carries a characterization of social ineptness, such as the idea that we are like trained seals that will jump at free pizza and Moutain Dew. Which, as you pointed out above, is contrary to reality - we do have good lives by all social standards.

The detriment comes when middle and high school students who want to be "cool" and fit-in avoid involvement in areas that are connected with "geeks", because they will be viewed as socially inept. This contributes to the lack of diversity in our profession.

Nursing has a similar problem. Male nurses are considered effeminate or gay. This characterization turns men away from the profession. I speak about this one from personal experience since prior to computer science I was a registered nurse.

Please note that I did not say I was offended by the term "geek". What I'm saying is that it perpetuates an (untrue) perception of computer science that results in some students avoiding it.

[Guest]

(blerg, i posted this once & it ate it. hope this doesnt pop up twice.)

ah, 'what about the children' =) i can agree with that.

i would contend that it is our job to create a positive image for our field & then the media will follow. i think it is about how we present our profession. let me use my younger brother as an example.

when he was 12 or 13 & i was tutoring him in algebra he found it terribly boring. he had no intrest in the subject & knew nothing about cs. his complaint was that it was just the same crap over & over & over. i find algebra interesting & relaxing, i like the process.

i wanted him to understand, so we sat down and analyzed the process & developed an algorithm together. i showed him how you could code the algorithm. we had a simple program that would solve the type of problem he was doing for him. i still made him do his homework by hand, but but he could check his answers against the program. he was so thought it was so cool. it was like the first time you watch that honda 'cog' commercial http://194.29.64.17/thecog/movie.html

i think if we can strip away the confusion, mystery, & plain old made up bs (im looking at YOU 'hackers'!!!!!) and expose the interesting internals in a way that people can relate to, they will naturally gravitate toward it. they will see that it is not just for the socially inept. i think that this is the way to attract people to cs.

as a second note.

we must realize that the sterotype of the 'cs geek' is rooted in reality. i think at one time or another all of us have torn through a bag of cheetos, or guzzeled a case of mnt. dew, or played everquest way too long, or whatever. and there are definintly people out there who's lives are centered around this kind of behavior.

i believe that this sterotype is bad for our fields 'image'. i also think the occasional indulgance is fun & a part of what makes us unique.

perhaps this should go in a different post but:

what should be our stance on these behaviors?

should we be trying to 'reform' these people?
should we teach l337 as a second language?
should we raise social awareness?

none of these seem to be the answer (& #2 was a joke...) but i think this is an interesting question

[Jerry]

cynic006 wrote:

i think if we can strip away the confusion, mystery, & plain old made up bs (im looking at YOU 'hackers'!!!!!) and expose the interesting internals in a way that people can relate to, they will naturally gravitate toward it.

I agree (with everything).  

First we have "to lead the horse to water".

[John Eachus]

I sometimes wonder if Best Buy's Geek squad has self-esteem issues.  

Think of the manager who walks in and says, "Men, we're reoganizing the tech support department and you'll now be known as the Geek Squad."

[Bryan]

Actually I think if you look at BB GeekSquad they hire on sex appeal not knowledge of computers.

[Matthew Thomas]

This actually doesn't suprise me, and the funny thing about this is that best buy is not the only place you see this...

If you sit and think about it for a minute, the person working in the main shopping area is working a retail position. The particular position may not pay on commission, but that is not the point here.

Retail sales are without a doubt front line money makers for a good majority of businesses out there. Now, we all know that sex sells, and a company is going to do what ever it takes to make more money. (that's what they're there for right?) If you were out to buy $1500+ worth of merchandise, would it be eaiser to buy it with the help of someone who smelled like they didn't know the meaning of the word "bathe" and was all disfigured, but knew the item inside and out, or would it be eaiser to buy it with the help of the svelte, flirty, hotty that just knew the bare minimum?

I think if you're honest, (or at least thinking like John Q. Public) you'd be more inclined to buy from the hotty.

The tech-retail (which should be loosely used for businesses such as best buy) industry is not the only place where you'll see a business hire on sex appeal and then put them on the front lines. Notice who's working the front (checkout) lines next time you step into:
Any fast food joint (really bad about this)
Overpriced uppity mall stores (the sharper image for example)
Jewlery stores
Cell-phone kiosks

take a look around... best buy's not the only offender.

(Brian, I didn't mean to step on your toes if I did)

[William Grim]

I don't know who it was that originally thought "sex sells", but it doesn't sell me too much.  Sometimes, if in the proper context, sex does sell me things, but I don't make decisions about most things I'm buying just because a pretty girl is giving me bullshit.  Bullshit is bullshit, and it smells like shit whether coming from a pretty face or an ugly carcass.

[Jerry]

I'm pretty sure that sex sells marriage licences  :-)

[Bryan]

Matt you didn't step on my toes at all, you pretty much echoed my exact thoughts.  It's just a fact of life i suppose, weather you want to admit it or not at some time or another a pretty face has had their way with you.

[Tyler]

Sex may not sell you, Mike, but I think it sells the majority of men.  Why do you think it is pretty servers get better tips at restaurants?  Why are all female music pop stars crazy hot?  Why are all female news anchors on CNN and Fox news hot?  I would take Katie Couric any day of the week, and she's old.

It's tough to even be famous nowadays if you're not attractive.  Sex must sell, or why else would Britney Spears be famous?  I can tell you it's not her musical talent--it's because she's frickin hot and music execs know that guys will fantisize about her all day long and buy her cds and go to her concerts and watch her reality show on UPN.

[Bryan]

You should listen to Tyler guys, he knows all about being taken by a pretty fa....pretty everything.